Hello Joseph! Thanks for responding.
You said:
"Hi Kyle, thanks for your thoughts.
Your article implies with some authority you know the fate of a narcissist when standing before God. Are you absolutely sure and what is the purpose or value of this article?"
I'm sure of the criterion Jesus laid out -- to love Him with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourselves.
I'm also sure that narcissists don't do either.
To be clear: a narcissist can repent. The Holy Spirit can change any heart.
But a repentant narcissist who begins loving God and loving his neighbor is not a narcissist anymore.
You said:
"If you intend to communicate with individuals who have narcissistic traits and perhaps have them consider a different path I can see the potential usefulness."
This is indeed one purpose of the article. Not the only one, but certainly a major one.
Putting the fear of the Lord in a narcisist might be the kick needed to prompt change.
You said:
"On the other hand, I’ve read from professional psychologists that NPD is a psychological disorder that likely has roots in childhood trauma and recovery may be unachievable even with many years of CBT. I am not sure if that is true but if it is, perhaps diagnosed narcissists can be included with other psychological disorders that are categorized currently as “uncurable”.
It may indeed be uncurable by natural means.
Thankfully, the Holy Spirit isn't natural.
In my day job, I counsel people in the darkest places. I've witnessed God bring about change that no one else could.
It's absolutely a fact that God can change a narcissist.
I think the psychologists are correct that no narcissist can change themselves.
But again, we're not relying on them changing themselves. We have God for that.
You said:
"I don’t presume to know with certainty the fate of NPD individuals before God and I don’t know the fate of individuals who were born with other debilitating mental disorders. I am aware of what scripture says but will never consider our God to be constrained or restricted by words in the Bible. The Bible is a guide for humankind, but I don’t think it’s a rulebook that God must follow or a book we use to judge the other. What do you think?"
Consider Jesus.
He is the most loving and accepting Person ever to live.
He adhered to the Old Testament Scriptures with exactitude, affirming each individual word every time He refers to it.
The OT Law didn't bind Jesus. It freed Him to love, to live three years that changed the entire world.
You said:
"C.S. Lewis talks about people doing the best with that which they’ve been born. Hence, a child born into poverty who becomes a prostitute, somehow through their compassion, with “Johns” causes her clients to repent versus the “devoted” church-going Christian born into wealth but never uses it for any substantial good in the world. What can we say about doing the best we can with the cards we’ve been dealt?"
We can say that God is just.
When Paul preaches in Acts, he states that "The times of ignorance God overlooked" (Acts 17:30).
God doesn't judge based on what we do not know.
But now that Paul was proclaiming to them what they could know about God, it was incumbent upon them to repent.
You said:
"I’ve had some direct experience with individuals who had significant narcissistic traits if not NPD disorder and I found the only answer was to extract myself from the situation. However the more difficult part was healing from the abuse, and I assure you, the only path to peace for me was acceptance and “forgiveness”, for my sanity. It allowed me to let go in a way that released me from the anger, disappointment, and trauma and accept it shaped me, in good ways and not-so-good ways. I spent quite some time contemplating the unknowable. Specifically what kind of horrific, mental, emotional, and physical abuse did my abuser experience in life to create the individual I faced? I concluded unfathomable fear, terror, and insecurity shaped the fiber of their being which created their disorder and personality. It made me strangely compassionate for them. Hurt people... hurt people."
I agree with all of this.
When people are committed to causing you pain, extracting yourself is entirely appropriate.
Forgiveness is indeed the only way to heal from such abuse. It frees you. It allows God to heal the pain.
It is beautiful that God is giving you compassion for them. As you say, hurting people hurt people.
Yet pain is not an excuse. A person's abuse is still painful, even if they're acting out of being abused, themselves.
Some people choose to find healing for their pain, as you did.
Others choose to hurt out of their pain.
Those who are choosing to hurt others need to repent. Their past is not an excuse to keep hurting.
You said:
"Kyle, it seems to me that people who read this article and have experienced extreme abuse from a partner or parent might “judge” their abuser, conclude they will burn in hell, and take comfort in that idea. Is that your intended message, that abused individuals should take comfort in the idea of divine justice and God will get even for them? On the other hand, if your article reaches a few narcissistic individuals and they repent, obviously that would be a good thing."
I hope it accomplishes both.
Remember that in both Old and New Testaments, God promises, "Vengeance is Mine, I will replay."
Vengeance is not ours. We are not to get revenge. We should pray and forgive and love.
We leave it up to God to judge, because only God can judge rightly. Only God knows everything. Only God can take everything into account. Only God is perfectly wise, loving, and just.
For many people I've worked with, this is incredibly freeing.
They know that God will get justice for them. They know their abuser won't get away with it. They know God sees all and will judge all.
They also know God will judge rightly. If the person truly didn't mean it, or had no other choice -- God knows it all. God won't get it wrong.
Further, if the person repents and trusts in Jesus, God still gets justice. Their sins fall on Jesus, and Jesus suffers for them on the Cross. Jesus bears the punishment for all the abuse the abuser committed, when the abuser repents.
You said:
"Kyle, I mean no offense and I have a sincere interest in understanding the intended audience for this article, its purpose, and its message.
Namaste"
No worrries! I love these conversations.
You said:
"PS, when I think of the narcissist in my life, I also consider this from scripture.
The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’"
Exactly.
